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| | | Author: | yorbrick  | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 03:10 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, yorbrick writes:
| | This comes from the May newsletter. I am now totally confused.
Listing incomplete sets
Let's talk about incomplete listings! Our Item Condition policy only allows
certain parts of a set to be missing, such as instructions or original packaging,
to qualify it as Incomplete.
When you list sets that are missing minifigures or just the minifigures from
a set, they should not be listed as an incomplete set. They are qualified as
'Custom items'. The process for listing them is the same, except that
you should check the 'Custom item' check box, as shown below.
Listing items as 'Custom' not only helps buyers in their search for specific
items, but it also helps keep our price guide more precise for sellers.
OK, so it seems if you remove the minifigures from a set, or sell part of a set,
that set can no longer be listed as incomplete but has to be listed as a custom
lot. What is an incomplete set. It says this policy change (?) is to keep the
price guide precise for sellers, but what are you comparing when looking at incomplete
sets?
If a set has 10 minifigures, and is missing 1, is it an incomplete set? What
about 5, or 9. According to the official statement missing all 10 is not an incomplete
set but a custom lot. So where is tge critical point?
Same with parts, how much can be missing and still be an incomplete set? And
if someone else has sold an incomplete set, how do I know how complete/incomplete
it was?
This seems to be a huge policy change, especially the part that an incomplete
set can only be missing the box and instructions. That was previously allowed
under the definition of a used but complete set, and my understanding was that
a used set could be complete if it was missing just the box and/or instructions,
but a seller should add comments to say these were missing.
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The newsletter does not mention a change either in the policy or the enforcement
of the policy. Nothing has changed in that regard.
As a ball-park figure, if a listing has less than 80% of the complete set contents,
it shouldn't be listed as incomplete. Another rule of thumb - everything
essential to the character of the set must be present, so for example, the signature
printed tile in Architecture sets must be included to list the set as INcomplete.
The newsletter was highlighting the most common problem with incomplete listings,
of which most are in USED condition. New items have different rules. Sets missing
instructions or boxes do not need to be listed as incomplete if these deficiencies
are mentioned in the notes - for USED items. Items listed as NEW must contain
the original packaging and instructions.
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What is meant by this statement from the newsletter? Our Item Condition
policy only allows
certain parts of a set to be missing, such as instructions or original packaging,
to qualify it as Incomplete.
It is wrong for new sets and wrong for used sets.
Obviously we don't know who wrote that statement, or if anyone proof read
it before sending it out in a newsletter, but at best it is very misleading and
at worst just plain wrong.
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| | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
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Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
 |
Admin |
|
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| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| In Terms and Policies, yorbrick writes:
| | | | The newsletter does not mention a change either in the policy or the enforcement
of the policy. Nothing has changed in that regard.
As a ball-park figure, if a listing has less than 80% of the complete set contents,
it shouldn't be listed as incomplete. Another rule of thumb - everything
essential to the character of the set must be present, so for example, the signature
printed tile in Architecture sets must be included to list the set as INcomplete.
The newsletter was highlighting the most common problem with incomplete listings,
of which most are in USED condition. New items have different rules. Sets missing
instructions or boxes do not need to be listed as incomplete if these deficiencies
are mentioned in the notes - for USED items. Items listed as NEW must contain
the original packaging and instructions.
|
What is meant by this statement from the newsletter? Our Item Condition
policy only allows
certain parts of a set to be missing, such as instructions or original packaging,
to qualify it as Incomplete.
|
USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
NEW: If instructions or box are missing, it is INCOMPLETE at best. It may not
even be able to be listed as INCOMPLETE if the essence of the set is missing
(all the minifigures in an IP set) or if only a small portion of the whole is
present (i.e. a single minifigure or a part).
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 14:42 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, Admin_Russell writes:
| | […]
USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
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Well, I guess the problem is in the definition of “serious” and “very serious.”
And saying “it’s on a case by case basis” won’t help those who genuinely want
to know how to list their sets without risking infringing.
(OTOH, rhetorical “what if” will still pop up anyway.)
| | NEW: If instructions or box are missing, it is INCOMPLETE at best. It may not
even be able to be listed as INCOMPLETE if the essence of the set is missing
(all the minifigures in an IP set) or if only a small portion of the whole is
present (i.e. a single minifigure or a part).
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Wasn’t there a tolerance for new, not yet catalogued, minifigures, when only
the set entry exists (so, without an inventory yet)?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 14:52 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
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| Location: USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
|
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
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| In Terms and Policies, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, Admin_Russell writes:
| | […]
USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
|
Well, I guess the problem is in the definition of “serious” and “very serious.”
And saying “it’s on a case by case basis” won’t help those who genuinely want
to know how to list their sets without risking infringing.
(OTOH, rhetorical “what if” will still pop up anyway.)
| | NEW: If instructions or box are missing, it is INCOMPLETE at best. It may not
even be able to be listed as INCOMPLETE if the essence of the set is missing
(all the minifigures in an IP set) or if only a small portion of the whole is
present (i.e. a single minifigure or a part).
|
Wasn’t there a tolerance for new, not yet catalogued, minifigures, when only
the set entry exists (so, without an inventory yet)?
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Yes, there was. But frankly, they should have always been listed in the Custom
section. People still use the Custom section extensively when trying to list
things early, so we know this is a viable option.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 16:06 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, Admin_Russell writes:
| | […]
USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
|
Well, I guess the problem is in the definition of “serious” and “very serious.”
And saying “it’s on a case by case basis” won’t help those who genuinely want
to know how to list their sets without risking infringing.
(OTOH, rhetorical “what if” will still pop up anyway.)
|
I would propose a more precise definition?
To be considered Complete:
* Box and eventual Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
If not, to be considered Incomplete:
* Box and Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
* All eventual Inventoried Minifigures and Gears should be present.
* All eventual sticker Sheets should be present.
* Other missing parts or items should represent a relatively minor value eg.
less than 10% of the total Average Price Guide Value of this parted out Set --
at the date of the lot upload/update.
If not, it should be listed as Custom Item.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 16:15 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
I would propose a more precise definition?
To be considered Complete:
* Box and eventual Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
|
So it’s for Used only?
| | If not, to be considered Incomplete:
* Box and Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
* All eventual Inventoried Minifigures and Gears should be present.
* All eventual sticker Sheets should be present.
|
… or, for Used, stickers applied, or a mix of applied stickers and (incomplete)
sticker sheets.
| | * Other missing parts or items should represent a relatively minor value eg.
less than 10% of the total Average Price Guide Value of this parted out Set --
at the date of the lot upload/update.
If not, it should be listed as Custom Item.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 16:19 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
I would propose a more precise definition?
To be considered Complete:
* Box and eventual Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
|
So it’s for Used only?
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Darn yes.
I'm Used to sell New only.
A bit confused too.
| | | | If not, to be considered Incomplete:
* Box and Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
* All eventual Inventoried Minifigures and Gears should be present.
* All eventual sticker Sheets should be present.
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… or, for Used, stickers applied, or a mix of applied stickers and (incomplete)
sticker sheets.
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Thanks SylvainGPT.
Now I just miss the Nubs version: "Celebrate with pizza!!!" 
But yes.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 16:41 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Now I just miss the Nubs version: "Celebrate with pizza!!!"
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Celebrate with waffles!!! 🧇🧇🧇
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 16:55 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
I would propose a more precise definition?
To be considered Complete:
* Box and eventual Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
|
So it’s for Used only?
|
Darn yes.
I'm Used to sell New only.
A bit confused too.
| | | | If not, to be considered Incomplete:
* Box and Instructions may be missing if clearly described in the Lot.
* All eventual Inventoried Minifigures and Gears should be present.
* All eventual sticker Sheets should be present.
|
… or, for Used, stickers applied, or a mix of applied stickers and (incomplete)
sticker sheets.
|
Thanks SylvainGPT.
Now I just miss the Nubs version: "Celebrate with pizza!!!"
But yes.
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Celebrate with pizza!!!"
copies direct from your message sill including the 1 "
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 17:06 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, Nubs_Select writes:
| | Celebrate with pizza!!!"
copies direct from your message sill including the 1 "
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*silly?
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| | | | | | | Author: | Swatson217 | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 14:49 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| This whole thing is super confusing for sellers trying to do what is asked of
us. Parameters need to be clear, which they are not.
In Terms and Policies, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, yorbrick writes:
| | | | The newsletter does not mention a change either in the policy or the enforcement
of the policy. Nothing has changed in that regard.
As a ball-park figure, if a listing has less than 80% of the complete set contents,
it shouldn't be listed as incomplete. Another rule of thumb - everything
essential to the character of the set must be present, so for example, the signature
printed tile in Architecture sets must be included to list the set as INcomplete.
The newsletter was highlighting the most common problem with incomplete listings,
of which most are in USED condition. New items have different rules. Sets missing
instructions or boxes do not need to be listed as incomplete if these deficiencies
are mentioned in the notes - for USED items. Items listed as NEW must contain
the original packaging and instructions.
|
What is meant by this statement from the newsletter? Our Item Condition
policy only allows
certain parts of a set to be missing, such as instructions or original packaging,
to qualify it as Incomplete.
|
USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
NEW: If instructions or box are missing, it is INCOMPLETE at best. It may not
even be able to be listed as INCOMPLETE if the essence of the set is missing
(all the minifigures in an IP set) or if only a small portion of the whole is
present (i.e. a single minifigure or a part).
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | May 7, 2024 15:08 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| | | USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
|
Will this page
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
be updated to reflect this new wording?
Currently it still indicates (for used incomplete sets)...
Every item for sale on BrickLink has a Condition which is assigned by the
seller.
:
Incomplete - Set is missing items. Description should state what exactly is missing.
As the seller assigns the condition, do they get to choose what the difference
between serious and very serious is?
Personally, I think rules should be precise so if an item is removed then it
is clear as to why.
So something along the lines of ...
USED: If instructions and/or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE
if this is mentioned in the notes. If any of the parts, including stickers, necessary
to build the main model and any supplementary models are missing then the listing
must be marked as incomplete. However, it must be listed as a custom item and
not an incomplete set if any of the following is true:
- It is missing more than 10% of the parts (or whatever is decided how much
can be missing)
- It is missing any of the essence of the set, including missing any of the
figures of an IP set, name tiles in architecture and similar sets, printed parts
unique to the set, etc.
Alternatively, it might be better to just remove the ability to list an incomplete
set. So if anything is missing and the set does not meet the definition of complete
(whether used complete or new complete) then it must be listed as a custom lot.
That way, there is no subjectivity when it comes to items being removed. And
probably less work for the helpdesk or whoever removes items reported.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Swatson217 | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 06:38 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, yorbrick writes:
| | | | USED: If instructions or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE if
these deficiencies are mentioned in the notes. However, for more serious
deficiencies, the listing must be marked as INCOMPLETE, and for very serious
deficiencies, it must be listed as a custom item.
|
Will this page
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
be updated to reflect this new wording?
Currently it still indicates (for used incomplete sets)...
Every item for sale on BrickLink has a Condition which is assigned by the
seller.
:
Incomplete - Set is missing items. Description should state what exactly is missing.
As the seller assigns the condition, do they get to choose what the difference
between serious and very serious is?
Personally, I think rules should be precise so if an item is removed then it
is clear as to why.
So something along the lines of ...
USED: If instructions and/or box are missing, it is still considered COMPLETE
if this is mentioned in the notes. If any of the parts, including stickers, necessary
to build the main model and any supplementary models are missing then the listing
must be marked as incomplete. However, it must be listed as a custom item and
not an incomplete set if any of the following is true:
- It is missing more than 10% of the parts (or whatever is decided how much
can be missing)
- It is missing any of the essence of the set, including missing any of the
figures of an IP set, name tiles in architecture and similar sets, printed parts
unique to the set, etc.
Alternatively, it might be better to just remove the ability to list an incomplete
set. So if anything is missing and the set does not meet the definition of complete
(whether used complete or new complete) then it must be listed as a custom lot.
That way, there is no subjectivity when it comes to items being removed. And
probably less work for the helpdesk or whoever removes items reported.
|
👆👆👆👆👆👆
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 06:41 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| If it were up to me, I would say Incomplete Sets must contain a detail and accurate
description of what is incomplete about it and then leave it at that. The price
guide for incomplete sets is not and never will be a useful statistic anyway.
There is no saving it. Don't even show a price guide for that.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 07:45 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, axaday writes:
| | If it were up to me, I would say Incomplete Sets must contain a detail and accurate
description of what is incomplete about it and then leave it at that. The price
guide for incomplete sets is not and never will be a useful statistic anyway.
There is no saving it. Don't even show a price guide for that.
|
Well, I still like seeing the Price Guide  but I agree that the whole point
of having an option for listing Incomplete sets is so we can, you know, list
sets that are missing pieces. Some, most, a majority, very many, a percentage...
are a whole bunch of subjective descriptors. Without well-published and easy-to-find
AND understand guidelines and no efficient method for enforcement, BrickLink
needs to let this go.
I understand their intentions for telling us to use the Custom Item listing,
but it's just not reasonable or practical.
On a personal note, I think being able to shop for sets sold without minifigs
or accessories is convenient and a good way to get parts at a relative discount.
I used to buy these listings and part them out for a decent profit.
~Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | edk | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 08:18 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
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| In Terms and Policies, jennnifer writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, axaday writes:
| | If it were up to me, I would say Incomplete Sets must contain a detail and accurate
description of what is incomplete about it and then leave it at that. The price
guide for incomplete sets is not and never will be a useful statistic anyway.
There is no saving it. Don't even show a price guide for that.
|
Well, I still like seeing the Price Guide but I agree that the whole point
of having an option for listing Incomplete sets is so we can, you know, list
sets that are missing pieces. Some, most, a majority, very many, a percentage...
are a whole bunch of subjective descriptors. Without well-published and easy-to-find
AND understand guidelines and no efficient method for enforcement, BrickLink
needs to let this go.
I understand their intentions for telling us to use the Custom Item listing,
but it's just not reasonable or practical.
On a personal note, I think being able to shop for sets sold without minifigs
or accessories is convenient and a good way to get parts at a relative discount.
I used to buy these listings and part them out for a decent profit.
~Jen
|
I, quite often will list incomplete sets. Not ones missing mini-figs. If the
figs are missing I part out the set. On occasion a part (or a few) are missing,
stickered part or stickers are missing. These I will list as Incomplete, detail
what is missing and put the missing parts on my WL. Sometimes they sell before
I acquire the part(s) but usually I end up completing the set.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 07:45 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
|
| In Terms and Policies, axaday writes:
| | If it were up to me, I would say Incomplete Sets must contain a detail and accurate
description of what is incomplete about it and then leave it at that. The price
guide for incomplete sets is not and never will be a useful statistic anyway.
There is no saving it. Don't even show a price guide for that.
|
It is particularly annoying if items are removed by admins for being incorrectly
listed, especially if they are not incorrectly listed. They cannot be reinstated
if removed, all the work listing what is missing is lost, and the seller has
to do that again. Hence the need for very clear guidelines. If removals become
subjective rather than objective, all that work is lost each time they decide
to remove a listed item, whether it is incorrectly removed or not.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 08:33 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
|
| In Terms and Policies, yorbrick writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, axaday writes:
| | If it were up to me, I would say Incomplete Sets must contain a detail and accurate
description of what is incomplete about it and then leave it at that. The price
guide for incomplete sets is not and never will be a useful statistic anyway.
There is no saving it. Don't even show a price guide for that.
|
It is particularly annoying if items are removed by admins for being incorrectly
listed, especially if they are not incorrectly listed. They cannot be reinstated
if removed, all the work listing what is missing is lost, and the seller has
to do that again. Hence the need for very clear guidelines. If removals become
subjective rather than objective, all that work is lost each time they decide
to remove a listed item, whether it is incorrectly removed or not.
|
Yes, in every case I can think of it would be better for the site to "stockroom"
a bad listing and send an explanation rather than simply delete it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | May 8, 2024 09:13 | | Subject: | Re: What is an incomplete set? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
|
| In Terms and Policies, axaday writes:
| | If it were up to me, I would say Incomplete Sets must contain a detail and accurate
description of what is incomplete about it and then leave it at that. The price
guide for incomplete sets is not and never will be a useful statistic anyway.
There is no saving it. Don't even show a price guide for that.
|
The Share Wanted List function could also be enabled so that a seller could share
a wanted list of the missing pieces for the incomplete set. The buyer could then
see what's
missing and/or price it out.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1468324
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United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Canada, Ontario
